00:00:00: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Radio Golf Show.

00:00:06: I think most of us can agree that Scotland's gift to the world is golf, however it's one of many Scotland's gifts to the World and today we're going to throw in another one – as far as i know roughly eight hundred years older than The Game loved by people all over the planet Whiskey to educate us about the deep historical connection between.

00:00:36: The two.

00:00:37: we are joined by the drum caddy Hamish Malcolm Hamish.

00:00:41: thank you for coming on this show.

00:00:44: welcome to their radio.

00:00:47: Thank you Frank.

00:00:48: pleasure to be with you sir,

00:00:49: we're gonna have a good time.

00:00:52: let's start okay.

00:00:53: the drama catty.

00:00:54: what number one was a dream.

00:00:58: so I'm.

00:00:59: it is a Scottish term.

00:01:01: four a short drink as not a pint of any spirit, but particularly a nip of whiskey.

00:01:09: A measure of whiskey we'll see.

00:01:11: So it's not an exactly measured amount?

00:01:14: It's just like finger or whatever you would call her something like that?

00:01:18: Ah...it is good point Frank if your own license premises in Scotland definitely needs to be measured when not on licence premises sometimes not measured quite so closely shall we say.

00:01:31: Yeah, I remember the pubs in Skarlanding that they have.

00:01:34: The bottles upside down with a measuring thing and you can tip to bartender as much as you want... That's their way!

00:01:41: They're going.

00:01:42: but um You've come up with uh With a fascinating- And i don't know if it is marketing concept or just business model.

00:01:51: We all know whiskey & golf has special connection and that we have distilleries hooking up with golf clubs.

00:02:00: I think there was just some big stories about Kings Barn, where they released some limited golf-related product.

00:02:07: but instead of tourists or even locals going to play around a golf and then being carted off for a distillery tour you bring the whiskey to The Golf Club most of time wherever they want it brought.

00:02:26: Yeah, that's right Frank.

00:02:28: Can you talk a little bit about how that would work?

00:02:29: I mean if somebody hires the dram caddy and we'll talk About your caddying days for sure what's going on there.

00:02:37: But let's say group of eight guys to two four sums they play in.

00:02:41: They call you up pay after the run.

00:02:42: i want You come by The club And do Your thing For us.

00:02:45: What does That look like?

00:02:47: yeah so So I'm based just outside of my niece, Frank and Anita are called Culloden.

00:02:54: so i'm literally five minutes from Castle Stewart.

00:02:57: I'm about twenty minutes from Nairn under an hour from Lossy Mouth, Murray Golf Club going north away about an hour up to Dornock.

00:03:07: .So...I am a sole trader one-man band And Im just trying to be as flexible as I can.

00:03:13: I'll come the golfer!

00:03:14: So most cases It's after the round of golf before that evening meal, and as I say totally flexible with a couple other venues which are not golf clubs but can be good to have drinks in.

00:03:30: So as opposed having them go to say a distillery you've got there for certain time or more flexible at times so they can book me.

00:03:38: i'll check out their itinerary when they're on the Highlands where is most convenient and I'm happy to go to them, you know within reason be as flexible as the camera time.

00:03:51: I probably don't want it up in the door on a past midnight still with little glasses to rinse out then drive home.

00:03:57: but i dont have conventional opening hours like at a distillery that might close by six p.m etc.

00:04:02: so thats how I take my bookings for four of

00:04:05: them As opposed to wine tasting or whisky tasting?

00:04:09: You do not spit Do you ?

00:04:12: I've never seen it done Occasionally, occasionally some of the whiskeys might be too strong or a certain nature especially peated.

00:04:22: So occasionally people can say this one isn't for me I'll simply offer they can pass that to their friends sitting next to them.

00:04:32: and uh... Especially if you're from North America visit there's Frank who like the concept of a mulligan.

00:04:37: If it is just not so somebody's taste I usually have a little reserve bottle on hand and i'll offer the person a malligan just to make sure they're not left out.

00:04:46: There you go, that sounds beautiful.

00:04:49: but let's talk about maybe um The cultural and social significance Um That whiskey and golf Have in common as I think number one it's the tradition And the craftsmanship and the time You put into Into It.

00:05:06: But More than anything, I believe it has to do with camaraderie because i would imagine your prime operating spot will be the nineteenth hole.

00:05:18: Yeah very much so.

00:05:21: and i guess a golf fan sometimes cadding for groups who come into tasting but not.

00:05:33: I kind of sometimes say we're going to talk about the drums and the golf course, then the drums in a glass.

00:05:40: So you know some people all come off the course have had a great day Some people not so much And it's doing a nice little tasting.

00:05:48: maybe five whiskeys taking them on a virtual tour of Scotland Definitely talking about their whiskeys enjoying what they are Frank It is not turning into really serious heavy kind of history lesson, but hopefully to bring the Fiskes To Life.

00:06:06: there'll be some old distilleries.

00:06:08: Some new ones and I think it just really fits in with the golf.

00:06:12: well because a lot of visitors will come over to play really old courses like Royal Dornock or Nairn.

00:06:18: equally some newer courses like okay Castle Stewart from two thousand nine Old Petty The Brand New Course.

00:06:24: so is almost that i like that concept of the mix.

00:06:30: we've got a narrative through the whiskey and the golf with both of those concepts, you know?

00:06:36: Well I think that's what... And it's good point to bring up.

00:06:44: On your website which is dramcadi.com You describe yourself as a sherpa when it comes to whisky tea great.

00:06:58: I mean, everybody knows what a Sherpa is that will see logs people up Mount Everest.

00:07:04: but so you take and We talked about it before we started recording.

00:07:13: If I play my favorite golf course and then drink my favorite whiskey afterwards without really any connection, whatever my favorite whisky baby in whatever my favor golf course may be with out any real connection between the two.

00:07:24: so one just becomes an accompaniment to the other And that can make a great day or great night.

00:07:34: But what i think you are doing?

00:07:36: The way understand is that

00:07:39: Pair

00:07:40: things and like people pair wine with food.

00:07:47: We on this program we've paired Champagne with cigars Yeah, and you seem to pair whiskey with golf.

00:07:59: And our dear friend Mike Herklotz who has a Very cool cigar brand of Ferry or Tego for the last four or five years, big cigar guy.

00:08:12: very clever guys.

00:08:14: He said something to the effect that pairing means you're taking two things That are perfectly consumable alone and putting them together in such a way.

00:08:26: it creates an experience better than they were separately.

00:08:33: For this you need awareness of both Your awareness of whiskey and your awareness of golf, would you agree with that?

00:08:41: Yeah absolutely.

00:08:42: And I think they do go together well plus an authentic story.

00:08:47: again.

00:08:49: You know...I suppose I retired- I don't know if this is retirement or not but i'm in just now.

00:08:54: Frank But left the finance world two years ago where it had been in thirty eight years And a lot at time as me weren't for bigger corporates Where you've got to play the party line shall we say.

00:09:06: So, Anna take great delight in not playing any party line.

00:09:10: I can give my own opinion on brands or meaning and just have them develop my own script.

00:09:16: it's authentic stories some personal anecdotes some reflections And yeah the feedback from maybe they've done tastings for has been really good.

00:09:26: It is different than just an item of pub Or ordering a drink at clubhouse as transaction.

00:09:34: we're really getting into the stories behind it and the links between golf.

00:09:38: The ups-and-downs in the golf course, some of them are from the whisky world in Scotland which have been turbulent over the centuries.

00:09:46: I do appreciate a lot.

00:09:47: my clients come from North America.

00:09:49: they've got this thing called Disneyland.

00:09:52: Scotland is not Disneyland.

00:09:54: you know.

00:09:55: there's been highs, lows, intrigue, skullduggery all sorts.

00:10:00: so I'm here to be positive on all things golf and whiskey, but you can't sanitize some of the... Some of the background.

00:10:07: Some of back story in history And like bring it a life in an upbeat fashion.

00:10:12: But we go deep dive.

00:10:14: We're not scripted To just promote.

00:10:17: It's always sunning Scotland.

00:10:18: That is not true either OK?

00:10:20: Yeah Well one time or another then i could say that.

00:10:23: And imagine your awareness Of the game of Golf Is Older Than Your Awareness Whiskey.

00:10:32: Can you talk us a little bit about your, through personal history with the game from it's first time you swung club to becoming a caddy?

00:10:42: Yeah.

00:10:43: So I mean i've gotten into golf probably like a lot of young guys in Scotland kind of ten-twelve years old.

00:10:52: that kinda thing think The First Time actually made It To A Golf Club when they were in one.

00:10:58: What used to be the meanest sport course in M&S is now The Kings and the outskirts of M& S, which has two holes that are same as that originally team.

00:11:08: I think it was just always into a lot of sports, Frank.

00:11:10: So sometimes football we take the front runner for couple years but golf almost pulled me back.

00:11:17: Obviously young kids growing up can put strain on your available time for dodging off or four five hours.

00:11:25: Certainly my finance career a lot of that was centered around hospitality, playing little corporate events.

00:11:31: That kind of thing.

00:11:34: Although I lived away from the Highlands for most of the nineties Most of my golfing time has been spent in The Highlands Playing at different courses than there In Venice up to Dornach.

00:11:48: The handicap we got now is actually lowest handicap i've ever had So somehow managed to claw myself down to twelve point two.

00:11:56: I don't think i'm gonna be taking any money off anybody playing to that handicap this year Frank, so we'll see if if normality kicks in and they might sit somewhere on the mid-teens again.

00:12:05: Yeah

00:12:06: um but

00:12:08: uh... Tell you what?

00:12:09: I tell you what.

00:12:09: Scottish handicaps travel much better than German handicaps.

00:12:13: So

00:12:14: okay Okay

00:12:16: You make it down to Germany!

00:12:18: I think you're making some money sorting her up.

00:12:20: How does she end up becoming a caddy?

00:12:24: So as I say, I kind of took my leave off my finance career in a twenty-twenty four.

00:12:33: And again there's quite... There was really good well run professional caddy program at Council Steward and then you know what?

00:12:38: A lot guys who were doing that.

00:12:40: so coming into the summer of twenty-four yeah it felt an easy decision to make.

00:12:48: just lean onto them enjoying their ranks over those first season And I suppose going back to my shirt by kind of strapling Frank, again when you're in a serious career like finance.

00:13:03: It's maybe not very cool to admit here are the mistakes that made When i'm doing The Golfing short caddying and very open clients or golfers about all the tremendously bad positions out.

00:13:17: being on golf course is certainly Castle Stewart.

00:13:20: So whatever bunker they want to look at, a bit of gorse.

00:13:23: I've probably been there.

00:13:24: so as say here's the mistakes i made folks!

00:13:27: Don't go over there let's go over here and equally in the whiskey side absolutely over the years have overpaid for some whisky?

00:13:34: Have gone on some distillery tours work worth their

00:13:37: money?".

00:13:38: And I followed some plans which didn't turn out to be authentic because I thought... The sharp back end route is that I'm being there..I've made the mistakes ..I've shrugged myself off , I laugh about them ... openly imparting some of those mistakes so that people can stay in the straight and narrow on the golf course, enjoy their best whiskeys.

00:13:57: There you go!

00:13:59: Well I mean obviously people could enjoy a wee dram before or doing around after the

00:14:05: round.

00:14:06: Yeah

00:14:09: Do do see any people?

00:14:11: In Germany...and i guess all over the world The flask has pretty much become It must have for any golf bag of a golfer over the age of eighteen, I guess.

00:14:26: Is that the same in Scotland?

00:14:30: Yeah it's pretty common.

00:14:32: probably getting into my first year at caddying and thought i'd take a flask with me but thats not really permitted by the caddies to do so that wouldn't be what could you... The clubs are more attuned now obviously making all refreshments available to the golfer, either before they kick off.

00:14:52: Most have now got some half way house and again in terms of three main courses where I'm at over this summer Dornock Nairn with The Bothy on the Halfway House at Castle Stewart?

00:15:03: um i think that's become more of a thing.

00:15:06: so uh the visiting golfer can refresh themselves take fresh supplies out for the second nine shall we say?

00:15:16: And absolutely to Nineteen Toll itself, yeah.

00:15:19: There's all sorts of refreshments for them there as well you know.

00:15:21: but certainly the hip flask of unknown origins and unknown what is in it are a regular thing that is seen on courses in Scotland.

00:15:32: It is pretty cool.

00:15:34: Let us just make one thing perfectly clear let's call these tasting whatever it is that you organise for them, but its not about catching a buzz.

00:15:46: It's about intertwining the enjoyment of golf with the appreciation.

00:16:11: and we're going to the pub or we go into a distillery, great experience though that is.

00:16:17: We are still talking about golf while having the whiskeys and invariably as part of our group there's always the days dramas get thrown up.

00:16:27: who had a great outward nine?

00:16:29: Who won their money?

00:16:29: Who on the bet?

00:16:30: so it kind-of keeps that banter as they call it.

00:16:32: going all the way through which course?

00:16:35: if you were at The Good Day in the Course Frank was a wonderful thing?

00:16:38: Yeah, absolutely.

00:16:39: I mean it's always you have more fun when you play good than When You Play Bad of course.

00:16:44: So to these events...you said that you bring five different kinds of whisky?

00:16:51: My standard offerings are on occasion maybe people aren't really big drinkers or just a more brief version.

00:17:03: so in couple occasions i've done three-dram line up but with less money, not more.

00:17:11: But as standard it's five-fist.

00:17:12: skis always give them lots of water to try with us.

00:17:15: well so we are responsible.

00:17:16: drinking nothing is rushed.

00:17:21: usually last between I say technically round about either side for an hour.

00:17:26: if there's a evening meal to go to clearly the guests have to be sitting down at their table sometimes after depending on the interaction and the vibe of The Group.

00:17:38: Frank, after me there's still two-and-a half hours later.

00:17:41: Just Dutton Golf whiskey history shenanigans.

00:17:44: Yep yep the drives get longer and the punch gets better... Would you be selecting whiskeys that somebody from the States or from continental Europe has never heard off?

00:18:00: Or would they also include things the brands we are familiar with?

00:18:05: So, certainly when I set out putting the Fiskies together Frank and to be fair probably... I don't know.

00:18:12: Ninety percent of my clean until it's from North America.

00:18:16: so It seemed to me there was no point whatsoever doing Fiskis that can buy in travel retail or by back home.

00:18:23: Big huge brands like Diageo McAllen have become successful By great distribution on the Fiskes are everywhere!

00:18:31: So i cannot go for what called a Tram less travelled.

00:18:35: So you'd certainly have some distilleries like Tomatin, for example which I think is very well supported over in Germany.

00:18:43: Certainly playing at Castle Stewart there's a lot of interconnection between Tomatin and Castle Stewart and Cabot.

00:18:48: so normally about tomatting them they are but i just liked to mix it up!

00:18:52: So we've had some very enthusiastic people bit scotch whisky who come to line-up said that never heard any of these whiskys before.

00:19:04: But now we've heard of them.

00:19:05: We love them and while I don't sell bottles of whiskey Frank, that's not my shtick Um i can source bottles for people And also arrange to get them shipped back home.

00:19:15: Mm-hmm um I think the furthest out about a bottle ship so far is Tasmania and a number in northern edict in Canada.

00:19:21: Wow So it's quite cool.

00:19:22: turning people on to South West.

00:19:23: a brand have not heard off before

00:19:25: yeah?

00:19:25: Yeah, and again maybe a bit rebellion against my old corporate links where I work for The Big Companies.

00:19:32: I Love an underdog jam.

00:19:34: maybe someone haven't heard for it's great values, there is a real story behind that.

00:19:39: That sort of pisces I get excited about putting online up for people and i think the response has been good to that as well.

00:19:44: you know?

00:19:45: Yeah i would imagine some of those are from very small distilleries that aren't even available outside of The Highlands or outside of Scotland.

00:19:57: Yeah, in some cases.

00:19:58: I mean if we can get into jumping and put one to life And it's pretty much a constant in the tastings that i would put a bottle on from Dornac Distillery One of the smallest distilleries in Scotland.

00:20:12: It's run by Phil and Simon Thompson.

00:20:14: They jointly own The Dorna Castle Hotel.

00:20:17: This is in the square looks like they're going onto the Cathedral There actually building a new distillery at the moment.

00:20:23: so there really jumping up a few paces They do their own fiskey, they also what will go independent bottlings.

00:20:31: So that's where the might buy a cask from somebody like Tomatten or Glen Murray... ...they'll do their version of it.

00:20:39: so probably higher ABV, higher strength, limited edition super quirky labels and family owned craft style distillery.

00:20:50: if you'd like I would just like to mention along with Dornac Off Club where you've got one of the oldest and data-set most traditional golf courses.

00:21:00: And within a quarter mile, I'll call them quirky almost disruptors in the Fiske world – The Young Thompson guys!

00:21:08: What do they do?

00:21:11: Well again... In terms of their distillation… I think that was described by one of our main books.

00:21:20: recently has been One Of The Most Inefficient Distillaries in Scotland.

00:21:25: But they feed into that, so it's not about super slick production putting millions of units out the door.

00:21:32: It is older style working with some older students at Barley longer maturation times and its almost like having a made-to measure suit Frank as opposed to one mass production.

00:21:44: we are doing five thousand suits today.

00:21:46: Right yeah I love this.

00:21:49: So more bespoke but family business.

00:21:54: they're doing something very small, very niche within quarter of a mile.

00:21:59: Of the amazing Dornock Championship course which you know I think as we sit here in April.

00:22:05: twenty-twenty six i think all the visitor times are booked up for dornock at eddy this year.

00:22:09: historic and huge scale with an amazing clubhouse.

00:22:12: yeah it's almost a juxtaposition between The Two Within Quarter of a Mile each other in Dornack.

00:22:16: Yeah!

00:22:17: I heard that just put up a statue of um Donald Ross and some guy.

00:22:23: that was I think the first secretary of Dornoch, they're just unveiled.

00:22:29: They are doing good stuff up there.

00:22:31: Let me ask you this Some do's & don'ts when it comes to drinking whiskey Do you have a favourite whisky cocktail?

00:22:42: Or is there something you don't do?

00:22:45: You personally

00:22:46: No!

00:22:46: I mean especially in a warm night we occasionally get warm nights at least two or year.

00:22:53: Yeah, I love an old-fashioned.

00:22:56: I'm not a big whiskey cocktail man but i would say for newcomers to whiskey because it is a strong taste and y'all can be quite punchy!

00:23:04: I think whiskey cocktails are a far better entry point For non-piskey drinkers than see Jack Daniels in Coke.

00:23:11: So...I'm all for whiskey cocktails, don't imagine it the way served with a bit of pizzazz, then yeah I would never look down in any way at a whiskey cocktail and it can be quite refreshing on a warmer day.

00:23:22: for maybe a fool.

00:23:23: A full drum is not what you're looking for.

00:23:25: an old-fashioned always works.

00:23:27: um

00:23:28: Yeah

00:23:29: What about putting drops of water into the whisky when you drink it neat?

00:23:34: Is that?

00:23:36: I kind of imagine it's like eating sushi, you know?

00:23:40: The Japanese guys they know exactly when to put the wasabi.

00:23:43: We just put in the soy sauce and have at it!

00:23:47: Do we put water or no?

00:23:49: if yes how much?

00:23:51: Yeah for me frankly definitely so.

00:23:53: again one of my little gags with the golfers is on the cutting.

00:23:57: I'm trying to keep them away from the water but more than the fishies i am trying to encourage.

00:24:05: I mentioned before, my son who's now found his way over to Stegen Mainz in Germany.

00:24:11: Ironically, the worst subject in school Frank was science and he has a PhD in chemistry!

00:24:17: Well there

00:24:17: you go...

00:24:18: So He would come on tell ya quite succinctly about The different densities like your whisky To water And how dropping some Water into the whisky Will actually release Some of the fatty acids In complex flavours And bring them to surface.

00:24:35: So again, in acting and hearing different opinions and styles.

00:24:40: I appreciate a lot of boys and girls from America.

00:24:43: their style of drinking whiskey is the shot-style so absolutely take them away.

00:24:48: form that you know.

00:24:49: if the whisky's been in the cast for fifteen years let's not then destroy it in fifteen seconds.

00:24:56: I do say to him look within The Highlands of Scotland.

00:24:58: pace has slower.

00:24:59: here we're slowing down.

00:25:01: We've got an hour to enjoy the whisky, we don't have to beat them behind in five shots.

00:25:05: And absolutely some people have a culture.

00:25:08: and again you look at movies or things like Netflix where they're all sorry suits on netflix when they are drinking whiskey in their bar and drink it down into that in a winner The other kind of point I make is if your not adding watered whisky You're technically not getting all the flavours from it.

00:25:26: So while some people Frank think as Scots are mean with money We're not mean with money, we just like value for money.

00:25:33: To get the full flavour I sometimes put to visitors that they are paying you know three hundred pounds around a golf and if their'e not adding water to the whisky it's like paying for eighteen holes but only getting fourteen.

00:25:48: Sometimes they'll go with me but its there whisky.

00:25:50: They can drink as they wish But some of them will add drops in the water Just out to find your sweet spot.

00:25:57: So were talking about a couple of drops.

00:25:58: I'll obviously, you can put water in but it cant take her out.

00:26:04: so i'd encourage people to keep on putting the water into your sweet spot.

00:26:10: So there's no judgement.

00:26:11: if you need half as much again its how ever you enjoy trying to grin and bear it, drink it down if you're not comfortable with it.

00:26:22: I think that's really important because as soon as we hear the word sommelier when it comes to wine or now you can even become a coffee sommelier in like a weekend.

00:26:32: um... It is about what YOU like Not what somebody else thinks you should like but never on ice Never On The Rocks?

00:26:42: No for me Again, part of the whole experience about whisky is also smelling it as well as tasting.

00:26:50: So if you walk around a links golf course at The Moment in Scotland In April time You'll see the gorse out.

00:26:56: Beautiful yellow flower smells like coconut up front.

00:26:58: so that's part Of the hole.

00:26:59: and again your going to play with the seaside You will get this sea salt smell And the seaweed.

00:27:05: So part of all enjoyment is about Smell.

00:27:08: If you put ice on the whisky It actually dampens down the smell so you don't get the full aroma if there's an ice cube in it, no ice for me.

00:27:17: Maybe a total beginner question can you just briefly like Jeremy Irons said on Margin Call that your talking to a Labrador explain the difference between single malt and blended whisky?

00:27:35: Single malt is all whisky from one distillery.

00:27:40: So they might have used more than one cask in that malt.

00:27:46: The age of it has got to be the youngest whisky that's in there, so... They may use a ten-year old whisky and might've used twelve or fifteen for depth but its gotta'l be lowest aged.

00:27:56: thats what goes on label.

00:27:59: Blinded whisky especially blinded malt is just single malt whisky from different distilleries.

00:28:11: I guess now where we sit, Frank in twenty-twenty six yeah, malts are really get the attention.

00:28:16: that's what all of visibility has been and maybe last twenty odd years.

00:28:21: Um...I always have a little bit of challenge with somebody to say i don't drink blends because I think not drinking an embraced blend is really ignoring it.

00:28:30: some great great whiskeys And its almost diminishing for blends had being a real bedrock of Scotch whisky over many decades.

00:28:41: My little tease again with some of the medic and visitors is when they talk about blends, it's almost like putting together an all-star team in the NBA.

00:28:49: you're pulling out great whiskeys from different distilleries making something a one team Of course.

00:28:55: then we go on to talk about Ryder Cup which a good conversation for the Europeans to have.

00:29:01: more than I American friends, maybe they're blinding.

00:29:08: Hopefully it'll stay that way!

00:29:09: I'm not gonna put you on the spot and ask what your favourite Scottish whisky is but where would be one of your favourites?

00:29:17: Your top three non-Scottish whiskies?

00:29:21: Top Three Non-Scotlish Whiskies

00:29:25: or One Or Two Of Them?

00:29:26: Ah,

00:29:27: okay.

00:29:28: So some people might find this surprising but there is some excellent English whisky?

00:29:33: Huh!

00:29:33: Well they make whiskey all over the world.

00:29:35: now we make whiskey in Germany then make whiskey and Japan for I don't know how long...

00:29:38: Oh yeah that's well established.

00:29:40: so you have to be able spot a little bit here.

00:29:43: um great english whisky that i tried-I think for the first time this year was Wireworks which is based in Derbyshire about the kind of Midlands of England And They do A really Great Little Lightly Peated

00:29:55: Whiskey.

00:29:56: Yeah, definitely Wireworks is excellent.

00:30:02: Another one that went down really well.

00:30:04: I did some tastings when the rugby was on The Six Nations Rugby.

00:30:08: so we kind of do it as a blind tasting with different countries.

00:30:11: but you have to rank them then guess what they are?

00:30:13: It's a shedded version of Red Breast Whiskey from Ireland Beautiful whisky.

00:30:22: Scott's guys were voting out favourite about that little group.

00:30:26: Um, lots of Americans choose from North America.

00:30:33: I'll probably go with Westland which are from Northwestern Seattle.

00:30:39: So it's not.

00:30:40: bourbon is obviously American whiskey very Scottish in style.

00:30:45: What's the quote?

00:30:46: Westland all one word.

00:30:49: And they do peated and unpeated.

00:30:51: well yeah because i was going to ask you about bourbon But that's not your cup of tea.

00:30:57: I've probably

00:30:58: got my eight bottles of bourbon.

00:31:03: It's definitely a rich, rich history of Bourbon and the links between the bourbon barrels in Scotland are not to be underestimated... ...I'd like to have some bourbons and keep myself up-to-date with that scene Frank.

00:31:15: obviously for North American clients coming over it's good just being able say yeah i've dipped into your world as well before.

00:31:20: we now spend a lot of time in scottish but um some great.

00:31:24: it's because i'm getting world whiskies.

00:31:25: you can't be too parochial about that, there is some great stuff out here.

00:31:29: and then of course you have the single molds.

00:31:31: You know?

00:31:32: The twelve-year old, the sixteen year old ,the twenty four years old.

00:31:37: with age the price rises.

00:31:40: Is an older whisky always better whiskey?

00:31:42: ?

00:31:44: No no so Kind of looking back that first summer when I was at my finance career, they did work among the whiskey shops in Inverness.

00:31:55: It is what it's...I think you need retail environment Frank.

00:31:58: You're looking to keep the till ticking over So there's always a pressure to be bidding the client up to top shelf.

00:32:04: if your not a mean Again i just like value for money.

00:32:11: Yeah.

00:32:11: so again some people will want buy premium whisky because it's been on Netflix or in the James Bond movies, whatever that may be.

00:32:22: If somebody came and asked what your budget is so you're keeping them at a level they are comfortable spending.

00:32:29: lots of things can influence their price rarity absolutely.

00:32:36: The dynamics binded to still rate just up-and-coming have got brand to lean into successfully premiumised All.

00:32:46: there's not ever better, again we talked about pita and whisky before which some of the viewers may not appreciate.

00:32:53: If you like that pita punch then the whiskey actually loses it over time.

00:33:00: so the pita is most ever-vescent between maybe five to ten or twelve years.

00:33:06: So if thats a style your liking I've dealt with some German visitors before That what they love real intense charcoal bonfire taste.

00:33:15: If you were to buy a twenty-four year old peat at whisky, it's much more mellowed out of fare.

00:33:23: On the contrary with sherry based whisky in the main that is going to get more pronounced deeper taste as it goes on.

00:33:32: but again I'm not an expert on sherry but i do appreciate there are about nine or ten different varieties of sherry made in the rethalia of spain.

00:33:40: So when your talking about

00:33:41: sherry

00:33:42: you're talking about the casks.

00:33:44: Yes, so yeah.

00:33:45: So that's where the fish give you seasoned or matured in the casks.

00:33:49: If I think about technically needus distillery to what am here Royal Brackla Distillery They have a twelve-year old which is finished and Olo Rosso Sherry Which is probably the most popular type.

00:33:59: they're used on Scotch Very sweet.

00:34:03: The eighteen year old royal Brackle is finished as matured and Paolo Curtardo Sherry not as overtly sweet, a bit more dialed back.

00:34:12: A little slower burn if you just love that super sweet taste.

00:34:18: maybe the twelve year old is more to your preference than the eighteen which has been more of an subtle affair shall we say.

00:34:26: so yeah

00:34:29: Yeah I mean You read now how people invest in whisky Just for the sake of making money.

00:34:36: i find it fascinating.

00:34:38: but coming back And when you talk about sustainability, I read an article.

00:34:47: The only article I really read in preparation for this that there are now different methods to bring the peatiness into a... or peatness-peatiness kind of thing?

00:34:59: Into the whiskey not by actually digging it up but just by the smoke.

00:35:06: did i understand correctly?

00:35:09: Yeah, I think there is certainly a movement towards that Frank.

00:35:13: The last time i saw percentage the amount of Pete round-the-globe involved in the whiskey world if you like about one percent.

00:35:22: so it's relatively small.

00:35:24: but I appreciate distilleries have to be cognisant on how things are and I can't really say overtly saying, well this is the way we make it now.

00:35:41: I do know one chap who's actually a fellow German Who likes to collect whiskey and i think his mindset at the moment.

00:35:47: Is he going maybe invest in some pitted whisky because that might be more of a rarity Now than its summer down the line which will watch out space

00:35:57: There

00:35:58: you go People will find away.

00:35:59: clever people will find A way around The new world order won't they?

00:36:03: So if We can't simply extract Peter the Way were making It before there'll be other ways to infuse whisky with that smoky kind of texture.

00:36:12: Yeah, and one.

00:36:14: it's not really a dichotomy but I found it fascinating.

00:36:19: outside of Scotland most people enjoy golf when its sunny and warm.

00:36:24: the weather is nice in Scotland no wind or rain nor golf.

00:36:32: what kind of whiskey would be good for a warm summer day?

00:36:38: Warm Summer Day, I would maybe put two hip flasks in my golf bag for a warm summer day.

00:36:48: Might kick off with a Tomato and Legacy or Tomato and Twelve year old more lightly sherryed, more bourbon kind of element to it.

00:36:59: so that might be my dram for the opening nine.

00:37:02: then coming home may be a Glenn Scosia fifteen-year-old which are done in Camelton.

00:37:10: So lighter whiskies, I mean would be lighter be the word or mellow?

00:37:14: Yeah

00:37:15: i would say so and that is a bit of an.

00:37:18: I'm drunk peter twisky with all weather types flying inside and outside.

00:37:24: but for most people they probably prefer a peter Twisky on an autumn evening Yeah.

00:37:34: But for something like, I would say one of the tomatoes or maybe a glin skosha that to me would feel like an outside summer day whisky

00:37:44: right and um The cold windy rainy-day whiskey

00:37:52: in the dream conditions we'd call it Um.

00:37:56: thinking again along my golfing dramas then i could maybe think about a king's barns whisky from St Andrews, one of the newer distilleries this century.

00:38:11: Is that the one they made last year sold out in like a matter... I don't know what?

00:38:17: Yeah!

00:38:17: They've done a few limited editions.

00:38:19: so i think probably went really quickly last year and ill give my shoutout fellow caddy Doug Clement who does some Cadding at Kings Barnes.

00:38:30: Doug was actually the founder if you like of King's Barnes Distillery and is still involved with it doing private tastings.

00:38:41: So, from Kings Barnes I think the pitted version's called Coldtown if i've got that right.

00:38:48: so younger whisky more of a bourbon kind of element to it so quite fresh on in The Homeward Nine.

00:38:55: for a pitted whiskey would maybe actually look back with tomato again.

00:39:01: they've got a fifteen-year old fully matured in sherry casks.

00:39:07: So great warming whisky.

00:39:09: And I mean, dare say if you weren't a Pete fan that oloroso cask fifteen year old from Tomatin it's almost got this sweetness That might offset some of the peaty flavour.

00:39:21: so It could always be a little gateway for somebody to take their first steps into The Pita Twiskey range.

00:39:26: Like i can imagine your American customers are also cigar smokers Some of them.

00:39:34: Yeah they can sometimes go down with a little cloud.

00:39:37: I love the smell of cigars, i'm not a smoker in any shape or form but i'll have this smell of it.

00:39:43: Good

00:39:43: cigars?

00:39:45: Sorry

00:39:46: good cigars smell good

00:39:48: absolutely yes yeah.

00:39:49: so like i don't mind being dined one to them when there's got cigars out.

00:39:52: yeah

00:39:52: There you go

00:39:54: from

00:39:55: what i know.

00:39:56: The whiskey first and then the cigar.

00:39:58: This is what was told as right order because alcohol takes away the saliva and makes a warm mouth.

00:40:08: The mouth warm, then the cigar cools it brings the saliva back.

00:40:13: that's what...

00:40:14: That would make sense to me.

00:40:15: I have actually seen things on YouTube where people are pairing whiskeys two cigars And having them almost simultaneously.

00:40:26: But yeah again we do call a cigar.

00:40:29: It is an indulgence isn't?

00:40:31: Right!

00:40:33: a quick and fixed, quick hit.

00:40:34: It's something you're going to enjoy over the time adding total experience of it.

00:40:39: so I do get that mindset of a cigar smoker who could sit quite well with a whiskey drinker whose looking for their time on top.

00:40:47: we are not just popping down in this short style leaning into whole experience You know?

00:40:53: I think thats what its all about.

00:40:55: also golf is taking up the time and racing around the course.

00:40:59: thirty, the same whiskey or a thousand.

00:41:06: Same with the whisky and cigars.

00:41:09: quickly maybe we have time to go back to your business model The tour operators.

00:41:19: would those people be your competitors?

00:41:21: The ones that take people off-the-golf course and takes them on tours who you work with at distilleries together obviously simultaneously.

00:41:32: Yeah, I mean most of my bookings... In fact not only in year three.

00:41:35: so i'm still kind to find them away and i'm up for collaborating with anybody.

00:41:39: So to be fair i probably don't really get any bookings from the distilleries because really they want people coming to do their brand-lead experience

00:41:47: but they also want you to present their whiskies at that at the tastings you know?

00:41:52: And

00:41:53: have a great reaction again what okay?

00:41:56: now it's part of my joy now Frank!

00:41:58: So I've had some great interaction from Distilleries when they have seen the whisky and a line-up being enjoyed by people all around the world.

00:42:07: Tour operators say, there are absolutely people that i'm getting closer to... ...I was down at the Scottish Golf Tourism Week in Edinburgh just last month so All Im Trying To Do is explain that im an option.. ..so im not a knight on the pub.

00:42:23: Obviously Some Distillerys are very easy to get too.

00:42:26: Some require a little bit more logistics, and some of the golfing visitors Frank come at year after years in the Highlands of Scotland which is brilliant.

00:42:35: so they may be done on number of distillery tours.

00:42:39: And while all the distillers will have different version out this year or different bottling-out maybe they've seen the tour.

00:42:46: I mean when you go round if your going for their whole tour The first forty minutes probably as looking at some machinery and some grain, which is really interesting.

00:42:54: For

00:42:54: somebody who once have done that three or four times I've kind of seen them.

00:42:58: man i know how that works.

00:43:01: so the two operators...I'm just trying to make myself a modern radar guys..i can jump in at pretty short notice.

00:43:07: ..and again if someone wants tasting it nine o'clock in Darnach , i can do that as opposed to opening time where you gotta be in ...and some of the tastings will only be on one day.

00:43:22: open mind, authentic kind of storytelling if you like.

00:43:26: and we're not just dialing into one particular distillery.

00:43:29: We are telling five different stories about how they all link together with the game of golf.

00:43:32: You

00:43:33: ever go after you've finished The Five Drams in an hour-and-a-half or whatever it is?

00:43:39: Any late night putting competitions on the putting green?

00:43:45: Not for what I have been there!

00:43:49: Not to say that's not happened.

00:43:50: I'll play the fifth drama.

00:43:53: I didn't say anything, okay?

00:43:58: Well you're the host so but i think what he said is a perfect example of The Scottish Hospitality.

00:44:05: You will take anybody on this journey.

00:44:10: It's absolutely fascinating!

00:44:15: I want to ask you about glasses Because with the wine, they're all you drink.

00:44:19: The white wine are this and red.

00:44:21: one out of these is that it's a glass important when it comes to enjoying these whiskies?

00:44:27: Yeah yeah I would say yes.

00:44:29: so the style of glass i'm sure be familiar.

00:44:31: think its on my logo called the Glyne Cairn Glass.

00:44:35: So tulip shape.

00:44:37: we call it narrow at top.

00:44:40: if again feed into what I said before Frank part of the enjoyment is a smell and the aroma.

00:44:46: so we're running this diving straight in then gulping it down.

00:44:49: The narrow shape at the top of the glass helps almost funnel the smell towards one's nostrils, um... A tumbler much wider at the Top right more achieved bit nice than two!

00:45:02: This smells going to evaporate because the top-of-the-glass is too wide.

00:45:06: if you know what I mean.

00:45:07: yeah Okay,

00:45:10: there's no right way.

00:45:11: There is no wrong way to drink it Frank I'm just trying to like my shirt by thing To get the most out of these.

00:45:18: that's a style of glass.

00:45:19: It'll give you the most aroma as well as the taste You know?

00:45:22: I love that because Like i said earlier people are intimidated By this so-called experts.

00:45:27: and And to have somebody like you come on and say Just do what would you like The best Whatever works for you!

00:45:36: Yeah within reason.

00:45:37: once your in golf course I mean you can play how you want.

00:45:40: You take hands off the tee, obviously need to keep up a pace of play... ...you know?

00:45:49: There's too many things in life that get serious about it.

00:45:54: Fiske is not really one of them.

00:45:56: and again in terms of the whole science behind it.. ..and how its made what the cast are made of.

00:46:01: yeah if people on that chat about that then great!

00:46:04: It's not really what they're there for to be honest with ya getting the biscuits, going get stories.

00:46:09: Going

00:46:10: to the experience and

00:46:10: chatting about the provenance of where they're from you know?

00:46:13: And it's also an experience.

00:46:14: I think that is very important for The Game Of Golf and its getting lost in todays world a little bit because people are too busy and don't have time.

00:46:22: but when i take my eleven year old daughter to the golf course her lesson and make sure everytime she finishes we sit down at bar or clubhouse just talk about golf I mean, and that's getting lost a little bit.

00:46:40: So i'm glad we had the opportunity to talk about it.

00:46:44: It is at dramcaddy.com.

00:46:46: ladies & gentlemen Last question And when you see Neil Hampton next week he can compare answers.

00:46:57: You win the club championship Go celebrate in a karaoke bar.

00:47:04: What your go-to song?

00:47:08: If I was going to karaoke bar Frank, that would signify it's time to clear the bar.

00:47:22: I think I have done karaoke in the past but maybe after a night of refreshments... I'm trying to think some other golfing theme here and sure there has been some golfing things.

00:47:45: I'll

00:47:48: tell you, it's kind of touching what we said already in terms just the freedom to enjoy whisky how you like, play golf finished my finance career, having to told the party line we'll go with Frank Sinatra at my way.

00:48:03: There you go now.

00:48:05: that's a good call right there.

00:48:07: That

00:48:07: will close the bar down!

00:48:09: It

00:48:10: is all about doing it your own way.

00:48:12: Hamish thankyou very much for stopping by The Programme once again dramcaddy.com everythingsthere and you can book on your next trip to Scotland.

00:48:23: We would recommend you organise your own trip fill in Hamish somewhere along the way and that's, in our opinion, the best way to enjoy Scotland and the Gulf.

00:48:33: There is nothing wrong with the tour operators but um...that's what we prefer.

00:48:38: Um..Hamish sir thank you very much!

00:48:41: Best regards for Scotland and keep us up-to-date on what's going on with you and the dram Caddy please.

00:48:47: Frank, slange va?

00:48:49: There ya go ladies & gentlemen That was it To The Lynxland.