00:00:03: Absolutely!

00:00:05: Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon.

00:00:07: Good evening, good night, good morning.

00:00:09: wherever you are we're live with Mr Ron Pritchard watching the early stages of round four of the twenty-twenty six PGA championship at Aranamink.

00:00:25: Of course Ron that you had obviously a lot to do.

00:00:30: First of all, thank you for joining us.

00:00:32: And what are your thoughts when you watch this?

00:00:37: Before we get into some the details with what happened since you have redesigned it.

00:00:42: and then Gil Hamsey came along.

00:00:45: but What strikes me...and maybe will start here is that I've been watching golf majors-I haven't missed a golf major on TV since other than the Open, one of the first events in the United States where it reminds me that golf is two games.

00:01:10: One tee to green and then around-the-green and on-the‑green.

00:01:14: And these greens at Eranoming... ...and what players deal with are such a beautiful sight to see!

00:01:24: Would this be fair assessment?

00:01:51: Did I send you along?

00:01:57: Yes, You did.

00:01:57: It's a beautiful thing!

00:01:59: Um...I don't remember the name of the podcast but it was a beautiful talk that you had with guy who is extremely knowledgeable.

00:02:08: But um..the bunkering may be another thing if we can focus on just green and long game.

00:02:16: in short game

00:02:20: Mm-hmm, which was with supporting service and bill to outside of his He rebunker in the bunkers.

00:03:38: The entire golf course that I think I've sent you.

00:03:44: Yes,

00:03:47: yes You did

00:03:50: some

00:03:57: more listeners than viewers.

00:03:59: thank God for that.

00:04:06: six

00:04:21: and then on a fourteen in particular, the greens fill pads.

00:04:31: What I you know i fairly simple relation to it because wasn't necessary but onto the greens that are used.

00:05:13: so the entire surface sits on top.

00:05:30: So maybe sound different through your listeners That don't refer to a green as putting surface really?

00:05:41: It leads to confusion And just think its absolutely wrong.

00:05:46: people put on is the putting surface and as I said, entire big

00:05:51: old structure that you

00:05:53: build to surfaces when it's

00:06:00: out.

00:06:00: But

00:06:01: anyway we did a lot of... They're basically honestes.

00:06:10: Is it?

00:06:11: Everybody keeps talking about at least here on TV in Germany how big these greens are.

00:06:19: Is it necessary to have big greens?

00:06:22: To have these kind of, as you call slender noses and the spines that run.

00:06:28: And give us those bolts they keep talking about for the pin positions?

00:06:42: Much at the edges though which is on B under square feet... For them feet in back I sent him a drawing.

00:07:26: so

00:07:33: what was his response?

00:07:37: There you go, that's the germ.

00:07:39: That's a German response.

00:07:40: no answer is also an answer

00:08:01: Yeah And I would say And it's still

00:08:37: standing.

00:08:39: I successfully begged them to leave

00:08:47: it

00:08:51: alone, they did!

00:08:56: It

00:08:58: is still standing.

00:09:03: thank you for that.

00:09:05: and we had a wonderful talk at the very beginning of our podcast back in twenty-twenty.

00:09:11: i think it was with you and Christian Altos one of our young architects who were trying to protect architecture or the golf courses where.

00:09:27: And then there was an interesting story and it also talked about in the podcast you did with this gentleman that I referred to earlier.

00:09:35: There's The House, now we see It In Germany.

00:09:37: That White House but Donald Ross said at some point is my best piece of work.

00:09:55: There was another gentleman who really did some work that Ross.

00:09:58: Did not intend or did not plan for.

00:10:01: Can you talk about

00:10:10: them?

00:10:10: Yes, I mean I explained in the attention to this golf course Because JB is associates.

00:10:32: not only he was a green chairman and a member And so he was on site every day.

00:10:38: He lived in windwood fifteen miles away from the golf court So he would there everyday any calling services which are really but also built.

00:11:48: We

00:12:03: will link it in our show notes.

00:12:06: But when Donna Ross said, you know this is my best piece of work was he being a gentleman because

00:12:46: The

00:12:56: podcast that you're referring to is called Feed the Ball, and it's Aron and Mink heads our tails with Ron Pritchard.

00:13:08: And we encourage everyone to listen to it, a classic podcast.

00:13:15: an hour in forty minutes!

00:13:17: It's about what this game is really about... Let me ask you this just out of personal interest when as an architect lay-out the course design everything how much How much creative input does a shaper have to the golf course that you design?

00:13:44: back to Texas, that guy in Memphis.

00:14:14: Right?

00:14:19: To see the golf court redo it.

00:14:41: In fact I've only been back in Memphis one time and that was last year when the golf course really looked good out six or seven years ago.

00:15:49: Well...I always remember this story.

00:15:53: you told me about your brother on a boat of the lake with night gaga vision goggles whatever.

00:15:59: you were hunting the frogs.

00:16:00: i don't know what many players and many of the best players in the world still call um, The TPC at Southwind one of their favorite tracks I think says it all.

00:16:17: Yeah thank you!

00:16:20: And that picture of you and Fuzzy Zeller where?

00:16:26: I don't know what you were doing but it sure looks like you are having a great time.

00:16:35: Yeah, well they cut that out of the photo.

00:16:37: I mean this was pre-photo shop but they managed to Cut it out and you could yeah.

00:16:47: Well if still one of my favorite golf photographs of all time And Maybe one day or you'll send me the original without the butt cat out.

00:16:59: Well, as you watch this tournament on TV and a major.

00:17:05: And to me one of my first thoughts was when I started watching it... Obviously i've never played Aranamink but looking at the golf course which is not your typical golf course that we see in the PGA Tour every year My first thought was if the PGA of America had any balls, they would make this a Ryder Cup golf course.

00:17:33: Because it seems to me like... Like a match play golf course.

00:17:36: because that's really what Donald Ross and all other architects in his area were playing match play.

00:17:43: They weren't playing seventy-two World Stroke Play.

00:17:47: That is why I'm thinking from a match ball courses he designed.

00:18:07: You don't find a routing plan hanging at any club in United States Where it tells you the

00:18:13: power.

00:18:21: There's no part

00:18:28: People asking me questions about that all time, and then You know in Rosses day.

00:18:32: Frankly there were only one set of T markers on its golf courses.

00:18:36: Right he might have had a cold tea grounds is each hole One set of blocks And everybody played this same length that day.

00:18:51: right

00:18:52: men women senior players.

00:18:55: Germany does.

00:18:57: Yeah,

00:19:02: absolutely because now we've got golf courses that have six seven eight sets of teas and you know God bless them.

00:19:10: I mean if it grows the game fine but um i think The spirit of the game everybody playing from the same peg every day That's what did the designers really had in mind

00:19:40: that sense of failure and it's absolutely ridiculous really.

00:19:45: but you know.

00:19:46: then when I talk to people about they say yeah well we're on with the speed of players in issues.

00:19:51: so if you had women playing or senior men playing more back where a championship player is,

00:19:57: or the backtees would take forever.

00:20:09: Some things don't change my mind.

00:20:12: Can can we talk?

00:20:14: Yeah, I mean they talked.

00:20:15: or did you know?

00:20:16: big story a hundred and seventy four bunkers whatever on the golf course.

00:20:19: was that?

00:20:20: The original design were whether that many bunkers.

00:20:23: No

00:20:28: You can

00:20:28: share that with any of yours.

00:20:30: well

00:20:32: percentage of trees Have been taken down in the last ten years on me.

00:20:50: And when you should even think about taking the bottom really connected with a club at that time from like And it should you know, You shouldn't have a professional do that kind of work.

00:21:15: Right?

00:21:15: So they lost about one hundred Magnificent Oak trees and then I've taken down the majority of their other trees which i think is You know like if gone over.

00:21:24: but I think there's way too much tree clearing as you heard in That podcast.

00:21:28: right

00:21:29: you Know just thinking It's As I said In the pod.

00:21:34: I feel responsible because I use with The usj when I first got into business Trying to get them To remove some trees.

00:21:44: you know once it took off, now its just the thing to do everywhere and that's not the

00:21:55: right thing.

00:21:58: Talking about your business I mean from first time we made contact five or six years ago.

00:22:15: But you built your business really, other than an architect going to clubs that were sitting on Ross courses and convincing them To restoring them to what they really were.

00:22:34: And making them much greater then at their point.

00:22:40: How difficult was the journey to convince clubs, to really believe you and say hey Ron I mean make it the way that was supposed to

00:23:03: be.

00:23:09: And nobody... Reese Jones he had somewhat restored three holes at The Country Club in Brookline where when i was fairly young i used to play on

00:23:20: a tournament there

00:23:22: and they are really good amateur tournaments.

00:23:27: You know the country club were better than the putting services on any of golf courses I grew up, but restored three holes in that golf course at about the same time.

00:23:42: That made my decision to go into business and focus on trying to convince these more prominent wealthy clubs in America who really owned mostly fine old classic golf courses too consider restoration.

00:23:59: so like everything else it started slowly, and it was

00:24:07: driven by people beginning to

00:24:10: hear me speak or gossip about what I was trying to accomplish.

00:24:17: And a lot of these clubs you know my phone began to ring

00:24:20: right.

00:24:21: so for motor and i It wasn't so much To some degree?

00:24:35: you know, terrific self-promoters.

00:24:42: And I never.

00:24:44: it was just this tasteful

00:24:46: for me to be

00:24:48: boasting about what idea or

00:24:51: and always has been.

00:24:53: in some respects i've been a success In several different information on what I was doing in my working career.

00:25:06: ever You don't know?

00:25:10: Yeah,

00:25:12: but still it was.

00:25:13: you know... You were a pioneer and as with most successful pioneers is if your build-it they will come.

00:25:22: So thank you for that!

00:25:25: And all those places have these wonderful courses which are not eight thousand yards long even though Aranamink at par seventy is playing quite long.

00:25:40: What were Ross's when Ross laid out this golf course, was it a long golf course at the time?

00:25:49: No I

00:25:50: think we probably added one hundred and fifty to two hundred yards over the time.

00:25:55: If i'm not mistaken well... To be honest probably it would have been sixty seven hundred or something which is lengthy for Ross but tournament teams are backtees where added to get it over to twelve to about seventy-two And then Gil Hans is added a few more back keys.

00:26:17: So

00:26:27: just not enough room to lengthen them anyway,

00:26:30: right?

00:26:31: You know.

00:26:33: so that's always been a problem and one of the reasons I think everybody should put emphasis on personality or character in the putting service Podcast that there's not a great golf course in the world.

00:26:53: It doesn't have great putting

00:26:54: serves exactly and

00:26:56: America We're destroying them because we were now mowing at a tenth of an inch Which means it?

00:27:04: You know under three percent slope a ball will

00:27:06: roll forever.

00:27:09: Yeah, you

00:27:10: know.

00:27:10: And so now we've got a lot like young people taking over clubs.

00:27:16: You know a matter management standpoint their members and then become president vice-president board directors, and so forth.

00:27:24: And we get.

00:27:25: We got new green committee.

00:27:26: They don't they really don't appreciate an understand the history

00:27:32: of golf.

00:27:33: So

00:27:34: it's an uphill battle.

00:27:35: I mean my.

00:27:36: you know.

00:27:37: that's why when we thought and carried you Convinced your people not to imitate what

00:27:47: they're doing in America

00:27:50: But certainly don't do it or work.

00:27:54: That's a whole different story.

00:27:56: And we're fighting really hard not to imitate that, and it is not an easy battle.

00:28:03: but another thing about you and I if we put ourselves in the same generation... We are not guys who go around talking everything was better when in the past.

00:28:23: You know, a lot of things were good but we are not opposed to making things better.

00:28:28: so I appreciate that from...

00:28:32: No when you see that my home was built in seventeen sixty which is not old and germany it's

00:28:55: old for america

00:28:57: this one was built five years after Mozart was born ten years

00:29:01: before Beethoven was born

00:29:04: So Vincent van Gogh passed away in eighteen ninety one.

00:29:16: Right?

00:29:17: If people go to that round, feed the ball it was appreciation really honest appreciation for those who preceded us.

00:29:36: exactly

00:29:38: you know and I don't think well we're doing when i say We You And I were doing The Best Weekend To Change That.

00:29:52: Now coming down this stretch here on a Sunday at a major Which other holes that you think on the back.

00:30:02: nine are gonna really separate and tell this story?

00:30:16: All has to do with a putting services, Frank.

00:30:18: They're all really good number... Number ten may be my favorite putting service in the world of golf.

00:30:25: You know it's got a big old swale That runs through center of green at an angle And I mean It took maybe the thirteenth hole straight away as a breather.

00:30:44: But its proven.

00:30:47: It's going to be true that there is no readers on the back

00:30:50: side because of

00:30:52: putting services are so sturdy.

00:30:57: Is it, I mean we're talking about in June or May?

00:31:09: May in Philadelphia is pretty early of the year.

00:31:14: If we look at weather conditions, today it's a beautiful day and in Philly there are about eighty-five.

00:31:22: The wind has played an enormous factor for this tournament.

00:31:30: Is that part... It's not normal.

00:31:36: I love the fact that we have a PGA championship where the lead on Sunday is five or six under, iIove it!

00:31:44: I hate twenty-under you know whatever.

00:31:46: fifteen under...i don't like that and i think thats what given the pga championship of bad rap.

00:31:52: so The fact this early was a risk taken by the PGA.

00:31:57: um..that maybe will have happenstance

00:32:03: because of course its covered with snow two months ago.

00:32:12: no leaves on any of the trees.

00:32:48: so yeah, it's been a late spring and I just want to mention

00:33:08: one thing

00:33:14: that surprises me is these greens are not out of control from a speed standpoint.

00:33:21: And they do

00:33:22: mow them very tightly but

00:33:26: i haven't seen anybody really

00:33:28: put all green.

00:33:29: Honestly,

00:33:31: I don't think I've seen a ball run back and go down the approach.

00:33:37: So...I'm really support.

00:33:44: It almost feels like an US Open setup And that's because of the wind.

00:33:49: but A lot of players describe the rough leading up to tournament as spotty Which makes it so much more unpredictable.

00:34:00: I think

00:34:04: the rough was pretty consistent, Frank.

00:34:08: You know only stop half inches of good weather and warm weather...

00:34:23: But wasn't that Ross's intention?

00:34:25: That if you miss a fairway are going to pay price?

00:34:27: or did he hit a wonka?

00:34:28: are you gonna pay prize?

00:34:29: sure

00:34:30: yeah but his fairways were enormously wide.

00:34:33: get to hundred fifty hundred sixty hundred seventy feet wide normally.

00:34:37: now I'm not sure what they have here, but i've always pushed them to get him out to about a hundred and twenty feet

00:34:43: wide.

00:34:43: As a matter of fact... ...I saw it fairway this morning that was forty-eight feet wide from right to left you know?

00:34:48: So um actually on each end there's little bit in the rough.

00:34:55: so probably yeah..

00:35:02: so

00:35:03: which is really great and bring the ruffin too much But I am not quite sure whats going

00:35:15: on.

00:35:19: It might be pressure.

00:35:20: Ron, listen thank you so much for taking the time on a Sunday afternoon evening and I really appreciate it.

00:35:30: And Thank You is...you know..it's a wonderful feeling to know that your out there if i can say it.

00:35:37: Oh!

00:35:38: Thank you!

00:35:40: Frank you become like brother of me over

00:35:50: the years.

00:35:53: Yes you did And we talked about the town that you're from.

00:35:59: We might need an intervention on my daughter's part because she is seriously considering switching out of golf into soccer, so I might have to call on for

00:36:21: it Last weekend on television, the health course in New Jersey is another raw stage.

00:36:39: It's phenomenal!

00:36:45: Sports great thing to see isn't it?

00:36:49: Absolutely and I think Augusta did a big part for that with the Auguster women's amateur event not making it pro-event but an amateur event.

00:37:07: The German Amundi Masters here this week finished today.

00:37:13: I watched

00:37:16: it,

00:37:16: yeah!

00:37:16: Yeah and one morning... A German one?

00:37:19: I don't know what the name is but that course was built by a good friend of mine Michael Blesch who's moving earth like nobody have ever seen before.

00:37:29: But you're absolutely right That's a good thing Without What are we at now?

00:37:37: We gotta lead it five or six under.

00:37:40: You think that's gonna hold, Or is somebody going to break out?

00:37:49: I

00:37:51: didn't expect the place like seventeen.

00:37:53: I did not think That was gonna be

00:37:55: difficult and And thats proving to me difficult.

00:37:59: what's astonishing To Me Is Not many people Are hitting shots The second shot in tight for the pin or even the par threes Are hanging their T-Shot close to the pin, which really surprises me.

00:38:13: And Seventeen is a part three?

00:38:18: Is it a coincidence that a lot of great courses I know have a tough seventeenth Part Three?

00:38:41: And to me, that was always a sign of great golf course.

00:38:45: You know you're fighting the battle and your going fifteen-sixteen then you get to seventeen...you got this par three.

00:38:51: That's almost like it is really good hole!

00:38:54: You don't stand on the tee and say oh my god I mean you just said This Is A Good Hole.

00:39:00: Yeah i think you want a variety of holes right?

00:39:06: stretch and that's.

00:39:08: I think a mix of three fours in five is great.

00:39:10: And you know, we don't want three four or something.

00:39:13: so You know what?

00:39:15: I think most architects it almost becomes instinctive to try To create good

00:39:20: finish

00:39:21: on these top courses but That water this in front of seventeen.

00:39:26: that was

00:39:28: Robert Trent Jones' work And

00:39:31: they were.

00:39:32: there was a big conversation at the club whether to eliminate it and push them water back away from The Green and he sided not too which I think probably with the right decision.

00:39:41: Yeah one final question Is It true that when somebody asks an architect To build a golf course That They should never build the first hole Facing east?

00:39:57: because that's where the Sun rises?

00:39:59: Because i love golf courses that have first-holds, they face east when you face the sun right?

00:40:05: When you go on your journey.

00:40:13: It's only in your eyes at a certain during the morning let's say and then it is up high enough where its not bothering so much?

00:40:30: I don't think too many good architects are really much influenced by them.

00:40:35: The first hole of this golf course was pretty interesting holes on the golf course.

00:40:43: You know, you drive from a very

00:40:44: elevated tee and

00:40:46: in the fairway it just keeps rising up.

00:40:53: when you're in the landing area...you don't really see the entire putting surface.

00:40:56: so they asked me on that pallet cast what I thought was one of them, felt

00:41:04: like first ones.

00:41:05: Yeah well an major number-one on a Sunday is certainly probably the toughest tee shot there.

00:41:11: That's

00:41:13: a bunch of nonsense.

00:41:17: I never even heard anybody complain about the setup.

00:41:27: Well, but Scottie Scheffler said that he has never seen pin positions As difficult as you've seen in the first two rounds.

00:41:52: Yeah They're fair.

00:42:02: You know, someone like Scottie may not feel good about his game because I mean he... Today and yesterday.

00:42:15: And yes during the four-footers

00:42:18: or less.

00:42:19: Exactly!

00:42:20: He started out today in the first six holes missing too.

00:42:23: that were just gimme's really.

00:42:27: Exactly.

00:42:39: Well, let's see.

00:42:40: Let's watch the rest of this tournament tonight and Ron I really appreciate it have a great Great afternoon evening in Philly And thank you so much for joining us.

00:42:54: ladies and gentlemen run Pritchard Live from Philadelphia.

00:43:04: Yeah there you go Ron Have a good night.

00:43:07: Thank You sir Good night.